Dr. Patterson and the producers clash over Katie’s request to leave the show.
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Katie, Hailey, and Denise have been through so much—so much heartbreak. Each journey has been difficult and painful. They’ve made their decisions; and in that sense, each journey is at an end. But now they have to figure out how to live with the choices they’ve made.
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Katie desperately needs someone to talk to besides the doctor. If I am not mistaken she is Catholic. Why doesn’t she talk to a priest? Or someone more qualified to give her answers to the questions she is asking. She was asking the doctor for advice and he would not give it. He probably didn’t think it was his place and he probably was right. But he could have suggested people that she could talk to. She asked him what it was like to have an abortion. All he said was that it was complicated.
People make mistakes yet the innocent baby is the one to suffer if it is aborted. As a Catholic, I am proud that the Catholic Church, even though it strongly opposes abortion, is there to help women after they have had an abortion. They are also there to help with crisis pregnancies. They help women with medical care and help them with finances. Do any of the planned parenthood clinics help women who have mental problems after having an abortion. And do they try to help them with decisions other than abortion. I think not.
Roberta,
[THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN EDITED]. Planned Parenthood is a medical health center that helps women with medical issues. They support woman in making the choices that are best for them, whether it be to use contraceptives to prevent pregnancy, to stop using contraceptives to get pregnant, to carry a pregnancy to term or to terminate a pregnancy. Planned Parenthood assists women with counseling and the medical information they need to make the right decision for them. If a woman says she wants or needs outside counseling when deciding whether to terminate, be it from family or clergy, then PP encourages the women to get whatever counseling they need. So please learn more about an organization before you speak so badly of them. For the record, 97% of Planned Parenthood services are in family planning and education services.
I have never been faced with this decision (thankfully!) but wouldn’t it be earsier to get an abortion earlier rather than waiting ?
Katie probably should get an abortion, and if it were me I’d want to get it as early as possible…
I use to be pro choice. I had an abortion years ago. I was not given th eoption of an ultrasound. If I had known at 8 weeks what my baby looked like I woul dhave never allowed the family to persuade me to do it. I have been tortured every since. When I was pregnant with my next child after the abortion I was suicidal. I know have many children and have lost several to miscarriage. I also converted to catholic faith. The abortion has left scars I will never be rid of. Yes i know God forgives me but I cannot forgive myself. I did nt know then what I know now. So many woman/men are depressed inthis country. Deep down abortion for many of those is the issue.
As for katie she is a military wife, she needs to call Military One source for free confidential help. Or the Red Cross.
I for one am not so sure katie commited adultry (yet) she could have been raped or drunk/drugged and feels guilty like she did cheat. I noticed on a previous episode maybe the first she was wearing a miraculous medal, to me that says she is catholic. She does have deep convictions I can tell. She needs to look at the ultrasound and SEE the life inside her.
Catholics are still human beings, and humans beings make mistakes. It seems you are implying because she is catholic, maybe she didn’t intentionally cheat. She does say that one of her reasons for wanting an abortion is so she can be a better wife.
I agree that abortion leaves scars and it is hard to forgive yourself. But I don’t think there is a “right” decision. Sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils and just hope you can find a way to get through the emotional turmoil. Sometimes the choices you make are hard and painful even if they are the best choice for you.
Just to clarify NO I am not implying because she may be Catholic that she did not intentionally cheat. I know from experience that a woman can *feel* as if she cheated when in fact she was raped.
Anon2, this is what Pope John Paul the Great wrote to women who have had an abortion:
“I would like to say a special word to women who have had an abortion. The Church is aware of the many factors which may have influenced your decision, and she does not doubt that in many cases it was a painful and even shattering decision. The wound in your heart may not yet have healed. Certainly what happened was and remains terribly wrong. But do not give in to discouragement and do not lose hope. Try rather to understand what happened and face it honestly.”
“If you have not already done so, give yourselves over with humility and trust to repentance. The Father of mercies is ready to give you his forgiveness and his peace in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. You will come to understand that nothing is definitely lost and you will also be able to ask forgiveness from your child, who is now living in the Lord.”
Be kind to yourself and pray to your child, and look forward with joy to the day that you will be reunited. God bless you.
Thank you and God Bless you, I have not read that speech by Pope John Paul the Great. I have been to confession that was actually my ver first confession. However it is still difficult.
Peace
Dear Anon 2,
Please know that I am praying for you, that just as you have accepted the forgiveness of God, you may one day be able to forgive yourself. Since you are Catholic, I thought this quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church might be helpful to you. I can’t post a link, but if you Google “CCC 1261″ you will be able to read the whole Catechism entry. Here is what it says: “Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism.”
What the Church is saying here is that we can reasonably hope that all of your babies who died before they were born are in heaven now! They are happy with God forever and ever. In our years of healing ministry, our Sisters have found it sometimes helps for parents who have lost their babies to name those babies, even though they were never born. If you have not named any of these children you lost, I encourage you to pray about doing that. Another thing you may want to think about doing is having a Mass offered for each of these little ones. If your babies had been born and died as infants, each one of them would have had a funeral Mass. You can ask at your parish how to have Masses offered, and there are also many, many religious orders who offer Masses for the deceased. Just Google “Catholic Mass Cards” and you will find an unlimited number of religious orders who would be glad to offer the Masses for your children.
These are things you can do that have real spiritual value. You will be showing your love for your children whom you never met, and you will be making a great act of faith. Doing something positive like this may also help you come closer to being able to forgive yourself. I am praying for that!
This comment probably will not make sense to readers of these message boards who are not Catholic. Please bear with me. Since Anon 2 is Catholic, I really wanted to reach out to her in a way that draws upon her religious faith.
No need to apologize Sister, I’m sure that post can help many people in so many ways.
I believe that it is in keeping with God’s great mercy that we shall see these precious ones again some day. Even in scripture we are told that David, prayed and fasted and wept before his son died, but once he had died, David dressed and ate. This confussed his servants so he explained that, “the child shall not return to me, but I shall go to him someday”. This shows that David knew (without a doubt) where his son had gone, and so he was not lost to him. How can someone truly be lost, if we know where they have gone?
This truth has brought me much comfort through 4 miscarriages and 2 ectopic pregnancies, I hope it brings you comfort also Anon 2.
No, I was not replying to you Carpe Diem. I’m sorry that I confused you. I quoted and was replying to Sister Agnus about “real spiritual value”. Up until this point I have admired much of what she has said, but I am currently of a different religion, and I felt offended by her “REAL (as opposed to fake) spiritual value”. I simply want some clarification as to what she meant by all of that last comment.
By the way, “carpe diem” is a great value to live by, no matter what religion or lack thereof. =)
Are you saying that anybody who isn’t Catholic doesn’t understand “true spiritual value” or that there aren’t non-Catholics or even non-Christians that are “pro-life”? Please clarify, because I do not understand the basis for your claim.
Were you directing your question to me KPH, when you asked for clarification? You hit the reply under my last comment, so I didn’t want to leave you hanging if you did indeed need me to clarify something I said.
Dear KPH,
I am sorry for the confusion. My words “real spiritual value” were addressed to Anon 2, only in the context of the suggestions I made that were from a Catholic perspective. In no way do I want to devalue the spiritual faith of any one from any other religion.
In fact, I have met many non-Catholics who seem to value their faith and pay more attention to spiritual values than some Catholics I know. I also know Jews with great faith, and although I do not happen to have any Muslim friends, I definitely know about the strong faith and piety in the Muslim world.
I hope this clarifies that I do not think any less highly of people from other religions, or of people with no religion.
Also, you are absolutely right that there are many ways to attain “true spiritual value” besides my few suggestions in that comment. Please let me know if this helps. Sorry so late in answering–I have been having trouble with my RSS.
I just remembered something else that’s neat. The first time I was exposed to the idea of offering Masses for deceased unborn babies (that I talk about in my comment above) was in the early 1990’s and was not from a Catholic source! I read about it in a book by an Anglican minister named Patricia A. Smith, and the book was named “From Generation to Generation.” Yes, we all have much to learn from each other.
This is very good counsel. I was blessed to have an opportunity to name my baby many years after the abortion and had a requiem mass said for my child. Undoubtedly one of the biggest steps toward spiritual and emotional healing.
Sarah, thank you for sharing.
I have a question, if this show is supposed to be about open discussion, why are so many posts edited or deleted? That’s not encouraging open discussion, is it?
That and the fact that this show misses the central point that children who are still in their mothers’ wombs are human and as a human has a right to life and instead focusing on the situations (you wouldn’t say homicide is ok if the murdered person was a hinderance to the murderer), make this show completely pointless except maybe some entertainment for people bored out of their minds.
FAIL!
Comments only edited if they contain hate speech, political rhetoric, or personal attacks. The goal of Bump+ is to promote story and conversation–true dialog. Frequently, comments are edited in such a way that they soften the message but do not change it. We are trying to keep this conversation friendly.
I would say that most murders would argue their victim to be some sort of a hinderence or at least an inconvenience to them, if they could use that defense. Funny how that defense doesn’t fly in court! Also why is it that when a father takes the life of his wife and unborn child both crimes all of a sudden are atrocious and prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and yet the same husband’s wife can kill the same child within her and she is not only not prosecuted but held in high regard as a heroine of the feminist movement. Isn’t that discrimination to say one parent can kill their child and not the other?
I am so sick of hearing that abortion is murder. It is not murder as it is legal in the US and murder is not. Until a pregnancy is viable the potential child is not a person yet… I can understand how that may offend your personal stance on things but it is vital to understand that it is not your decision to make. I recommend that you focus on the children who are alive in the world (heck just the US if you want) and how to make their lives better, because trust me there are a lot of them out there and they are unnecessarily suffering.
[THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN EDITED] As a former foster mother, nanny, preschool teacher and mother of three I am well aware of the many needs of all children. However I believe that one is fully capable of encompassing both the children born and unborn in their advocacy for children. Thank you however for bringing up the topic of child advocacy as it is a cause near and dear to my heart and should have more awareness!
I know this will be edited or deleted…
[THIS COMMENT WAS EDITED DUE TO ARGUMENTATIVE TONE AND PERSONAL ATTACK ON ANOTHER GUEST]
What central point? YOUR central point? Because I think you are confusing a theme of a show and its purpous with what you would like anything on abortion to be all about… which is anti-abortion in your case.
Just for the record, I, a pro-abortionist, have had my comments edited and deleted because I let myself get carried away.
Open discussion and free speech doesn’t mean that people should be allowed to attack and insult, no matter how tempting it is (with arguements like yours). The ‘producers’ of bump+ do not have a hidden agenda and they aren’t missing any point. They created the point, and so far they have let people like you, trying to give false ideas and insinuate about them, keep their comments up. So what are YOU playing at?
KPH, I second that! I definitely agree there is no hidden agenda here and that open discussion does NOT mean attacking and insulting others. Thank you for bringing so much to this discussion.
I’m pro-life, and I absolutely love this concept and the episodes so far. I think it’s brilliant and so far seems to be working in encouraging compassionate discussion, which is often missing from the debate!
There seems to be a lot of focus on Katie’s circumstances and ‘what-ifs’ about whether her husband would or wouldn’t forgive her. Some seem to think it would be best for her to abort because of the practical situation she’s in. Of course, for a pro-choice person, there would no moral dilemma about ‘killing the baby’, so that’s an understandable reaction – but there obviously is a moral issue for Katie. Everything she’s said seems to suggest that her basic position is pro-life, and it’s the stress and pressure of this situation which is making her conflicted. If she believes abortion is basically wrong, having an abortion will multiply her problems – she will be racked with even more guilt and shame than she’s already experiencing. Whether your position is pro-life or pro-choice, I think it’s a bad bad idea to advise or encourage someone who is that tormented to have an abortion, or even to facilitate that decision without first offering counselling or trying to help the person to think more calmly about the situation. This decision has huge implications for her whole identity and she’s crying out for help. Purely medical advice is not what she needs.
I think it is a misnomer that “for a pro-choice person there would be no moral dilemma” as many pro-choice people, may believe that a woman has the right to choose for herself, but be anti-abortion for themselves personally. They simply support a woman’s right to choose to terminate, and that she should be able to do so in a safe medical environment so that her life is not in danger too. I didn’t think anyone on the show or even in the comments are advising her to have an abortion, I think they are allowing her to consider the option. If she wants to consult a counselor, secular or religious, she should. I think a decision to terminate should be taken seriously, but I can understand the reasons why she might decide to terminate (such as loss of her husband and becoming a single mom who may be involved in a long, contracted custody battle with a man, who may or may not be a good father and who may or may not pay proper child support). I can even understand that if she decides to terminate, it not being a guilt ridden decision, but just another part of her life. I hope she makes the best decision for herself.
Well on the show Hailey advised her to get an abortion. Not sure if anyone on the comments directly did but it was an impression I picked up. Just wanted to bring up the point that for her to make a decision for abortion in her current state could easily lead to a choice she’ll regret, especially as she said she’s not herself right now. I’m hoping that someone on the show will suggest she talks to a counsellor or something before she decides.
Absolutely, she should talk to a councelor. I love her doctor, truly, but she needs someone who will give her moral advice based on the premise of their job description.
The guilt is likely to eat away at Katie. Women still present for counselling 30 years after a proceedure. It is not the easy option.
She will not increase her chances of conceiving again by terminating now. Uterine rupture and infection etc are real risks and have to be considered!
Fewer women who have had abortion have long-term mental health problems over it than women who choose adoption. Is it zero? Nothing is ever zero, there are always outliers. But its low. There are many many many MANY more potential health consequences to trying to bring a pregnancy to term than to abort. Shouldn’t she be considering all of those? Does uterine rupture and infection happen in abortion? If performed safely and legally, very unlikely. Is it zero? No. But having some health issue related to pregnancy is pretty close to 100%, ranging from the mild like nausea and hemmorhoids, to the very severe like anemia, diabetes and even death. It happens. Not nearly as frequently in the West as in the world in general, but it happens here too. If you want to base it on the relative potential negative health outcomes, women should never ever continue a pregnancy. Besides, Katie DID consider those. And the doctor rightly told her its unlikely to happen. Should she be suggested she go for counseling? Everyone, even Hailey, said she should talk to someone. And she talked to Hailey. Hailey advised her to go through with it. Or did you mean she should only talk to someone who would recommend she not have an abortion? Katie doesn’t even want to look at the ultrasound. Should she be forced to look? Forced to go to counseling? Based on the script, she signed a contract that she would have the ultrasound. The doctor said he wouldn’t force her, but she agreed in the end. Should she have been forced to have one? A new law in Oklahoma says yes.
*tackle-hugs and kisses*
So completely true. What a misnomer. And I love what you said about her finding counseling, and that she shouldn’t HAVE to feel guilty and she very well might not.
It seems that any of Katie’s choices have the potential to leave her wracked with guilt and shame, and any of the them have possible huge implications for her whole identity. Termination seems to have the least likely long-term consequences. Although, you’re right, a given individual could be completely torn up about that forever, especially if she experiences infertility in the future. But plenty of “pro-life” people have terminated pregnancies because of their individual circumstances. They come to terms with it because it was right for them, even if they feel generally it should be avoided. The thing about “killing a baby”, well, the miscarriage rate in the first trimester is about 20%. 1 out of 5 identified pregnancies will spontaneously abort in the first 3 months. There are a million things they say can cause miscarriage: hot tub, vigorous exercise, drinking coffee, etc. I feel like if I look at my stomach cross-eyed, I’m gonna start hemorrhaging. I think it would be very bad for my long-term mental health to get too attached at this point.
Pro-choice means believing that carrying a pregnancy is incredibly personal, with huge physical, emotional and financial consequences. Therefore, the decision not to continue it should be legal and safe, without massive barriers put in the way. It doesn’t mean everyone should opt to abort. I want to live in a world where Tim Tebow’s mom can decide to carry her pregnancy to term even at great risk to her own life. I don’t want to live in a world where she would be forced to.
I completely agree with you. There are a lot of good points in your post.
I do think that if she has such a moral problem with abortion, she shouldn’t get one. It would eat her up. She has seemed pretty eager to get one up until this point, minus the few instances where society’s beating drum has gotten to her. I have seen many women in PPHP get abortions after a few months of talking to a therapist about her feelings about it, because she has often witnessed violence and very negative attitudes about abortion within her family and immediate community. I hope she doesn’t have a religious problem with it and then decides to have one, because although one can overcome the pressure of society (to some degree) one can’t really overcome their own ethics.
I think its interesting the comments about how having an abortion would affect her psychologically far into the future. I would think that putting a child up for adoption would have much greater psychological ramifications. There is this show on MTV called teen mom, and one of the teen couples gave up their kid. This is a day-to-day struggle for them, even though they think they made the right choice (other than keeping it, the show actually doesn’t deal with abortion at all). My sister found out at 20 weeks that her fetus would likely not survive birth, and she told me what she feels about her abortion is “thank god I live in a state where I could easily get an abortion at 20 weeks.” Right now I’m pregnant with my first, very much planned. Its awful. I feel sick and exhausted all the time. I’m not allowed to drink alcohol or caffeine, or eat sushi, or clean the cat litter box (well, I’m okay with the last one). Would it be all worth it just to give it up to someone else, a total stranger? If you really believe that, you should donate a kidney. Make yourself temporarily sick to save a life.
[COMMENT HAS BEEN EDITED]
My name is Roger, and my wife and I are longing for children of our own. There is pain and fear involved in an unwanted pregnancy, but there is also drawn-out sorrow, suffering and exhaustion in a battle with infertility that lasts 3 times as long as any full-term pregnancy. The struggle of the women on this show reminds me of a song my wife listens to:
Jenny was my best friend.
Went away one summer.
Came back with a secret
She just couldn’t keep.
A child inside her,
Was just too much for her
So she cried herself to sleep.
And she made a decision
Some find hard to accept.
To young to know that one day
She might live to regret.
But I would die for that.
Just to have one chance
To hold in my hands
All that she had.
I would die for that.
The pain of infertility, and the option of adoption, are not taught enough to the young people who are facing these tremendous decisions. Shows like “Secret Life of the American Teenager” and movies like “Juno” are helping to raise awareness, but there’s still this misconception that the choice is Raising an Unwanted Child verses Aborting It. Include the option of abortion, and all of the arguments about wanting to have mercy and not bring a child into a bad life are negated – for a nine-month sacrifice, a woman can spare the life of a baby and give it something priceless: a loving family.
Realistically, folks, the writers are probably going to end up showing us 3 different scenarios, and at least one will probably involve abortion. But consider what a practical message of hope they would give by showing 3 different ways to act without killing anything: adoption by agency, adoption by personal acquaintance or family friend, keeping the baby and making the current relationship work, or keeping the baby and leaving the current relationship to protect the baby. In a world where abortion is commonplace, THAT would be revolutionary.
Roger,
I am so sorry to hear about your struggle to have children. I agree that sometimes adoption is the best option for everyone involved and when it is, it is beautiful.
The problem is that adoption is just as, if not more, complicated as the other options. Think if the father will not agree to adopt, then what is the woman to do. What if, like in Denise’s case, the father will not agree to adopt and is abusive. This would require Denise to give the baby to a known abusive man and walk away if she does not want to raise a child..I could see how that decision would be much more difficult than the decision to terminate. Unfortunately this can be a very complicated issue.
That being said, I sincerely hope that you and your wife are able to have the family you have always wanted.
After watching through all of the episodes again, my wife and I think that the producers have left each of the women some positive options that do not include abortion.
Denise will not have a happy ending unless she leaves her abusive relationship, either permanently or until Buzz has made some real, measurable progress in counseling. Terminating a pregnancy would just be adding to the collateral damage from the abuse she takes from Buzz – for her relationship to be so terrible that she is afraid to bring a new baby into it is tragic indeed. Denise needs to value herself enough to remove herself and her children from harm’s way, so that she does not need to fear to give birth to a new baby. I know that some will think “Single Mom, 3 kids, way too difficult!”, but that statement does a disservice to the single moms we know who are making it work, with help from the church, family, and social services. Denise needs a new support network to make her feel loved and capable, and help prevent her from making a life-ending decision – abortion – out of fear. No decision should be made out of fear.
Katie has made a terrible mistake, one that she’s truly remorseful for. She and her husband seem to be Christians – they reference “God”, anyway – and it’s my understanding that Christians believe in mercy and forgiveness, even for something as heart-wrenching as adultery. I think that Christians must also believe in forgiveness for abortion, too, but this is not necessarily the time for Katie to be adding to her inner guilt by getting an abortion. Her motivation – just wanting her mistake to “go away” – is not a right-minded motivation to be basing such a huge decision on. Abortion will not make her problems go away, it will leave her knowing she ended a life that would become her baby. Realistically, her husband will probably find out, either through the TV show or finding paperwork or because she is still recovering from abortion complications when he arrives at home (not able to have sex due to complications, for example). He may choose to leave her anyway, although as a Christian he shouldn’t. And their ongoing struggle with infertility will be a constant reminder to her of what she has done. Instead, Katie needs to let go of fear and take responsibility for what she has done, and look for help from her family and church.
Hailey’s issue also seems to be fear – fear of responsibility. She seems to have repressed her true feelings about all her abortions. She keeps repeatedly getting pregnant, but is totally unprepared to deal with the consequences of her actions. As for nursing school, please don’t portray that as an absolutely non-negotiable hang-up for having a baby. My wife just completed nursing school alongside several remarkable young women, some married, some single, who successfully completed a community college nursing course with brand-new babies – a couple of the women had twins – using child care, family, and friends to help support them through their schooling. They are all now successful Registered Nurses and mothers, contributing positively to our community and their own families, and didn’t let anyone tell them they couldn’t graduate from nursing school and take care of newborn babies at the same time. A truly empowering ending for Hailey would be to have her realize that she needs to take responsibility for the new life she’s set in motion, AND for her career – and that she can do both of these things at the same time.
The question is, will the producers choose to show us the truly hope-inspiring and empowering endings for these women? I guess we’ll find out in March.
Roger, I am very sorry to read about your struggle with infertility. I have a history of infertility as well, it took me 4 years to conceive my daughter. I completely get the pain expressed in that song and even though I now rock my daughter to sleep every night, the memory of the empty hole in my heart never goes away.
I also agree that adoption as an option should be discussed and accepted more often. So many adoptive families struggle with a lack of cultural acceptance of them as a family. Adoption is a wonderful, loving, amazing way to build a family and I know many adoptive families that are truly an inspiration. I think adoption should be presented as an option in these stories too. However, as Anon said, adoption is very complicated, legally, psychologically and sometimes morally. It isn’t cut and dried.
I also want to point out that not all pregnancies are easy. Mine did not end well, and my daughter was born very premature. I nearly died. The chances of me having another baby are very slim. Pregnancy usually is easy, but there are real health risks and real complications that happen. It is a LOT to ask of someone to risk that in order to give another family a baby.
Let’s say she decides to keep the child and be honest with her husband about her infidelity. And they decide to make the marriage work, her husband accepts the child, and so forth. What about the biological father’s rights?
Maybe he feels a responsibility or connection to his child, maybe not.
What if neither her husband or the father claim responsibility?
What if her family is disappointed in what she has done?
Does she or her child deserve that shame and lack of support?
What if she has an abortion and her husband finds out and leaves her anyway?
These questions can have positive or negative answers. But when you’re in this situation, you’re not afraid of the best possible outcome.
I have been watching this series since the premiere, and I have to say that I really appreciate the freedom of opinion, and the openness of the directors. Due to birth control failure, I found out that I was pregnant July of 2009. I found out long after I became impregnated, and in the state I live in, I had to decide with my boyfriend of close to two years whether or not I should keep the baby (within a week of my ultra-sound). I thought long and hard about raising the baby, or giving the baby up for adoption, but my mind raced on what my family would think. I grew up in a religious family, and when I got my first tattoo at 18 I decided to tell my mother, after putting her through a little suspense. She thought I had gotten an abortion and nearly passed out. With that memory in my mind I knew that I had to make one of the most difficult choices in my life.
After my decision of abortion I haven’t talked to many people about it. Those I know will understand tell me that I have a lot resting on my shoulders. I feel that the world has a judgmental eye on those who make choices that are not in the social norms of what they believe. A quote that really moved me on this blog that I read previously stated, “So wrapped up in our own notions of right and wrong, we fail to help those in need of love and understanding.” I understood at the time that I could spend the rest of my life as a mother, changing/ maturing from that moment on, or I could spend $1270 on a 5 month along abortion that would leave me the opportunity of changing who I was and what I wanted from myself for the rest of my life.
The choice itself should be left to those involved. We have the power of information, and it should be accessible by all. At 21 years old, I still don’t know if I made the “right” decision. I do know that I am able to continue my education at a community college. I don’t think that would be my priority if I had a child. Also my life and thought process have changed dramatically. One person, one situation, one way of thinking should not hinder the right of choice. One person’s book, or morality, or opinion on how to live life properly should not pressure another person to decide whether raising another life is right for them at that time. Life is one big choice. Right or wrong, everything will work out. The key is understanding what has happened, your options, and what you feel is right for you.
Kate, I applaud you for sharing your story on here. You seem like a very strong individual and I am glad you were able to make the decision you felt was best for you. I agree that understanding is the key to this issue.
Kate, thank you for sharing this. I was thinking that for pro life people, believing that abortion is wrong is as natural to them as breathing or walking. That is why it is sometimes hard for them (myself included) to understand how someone else might look at it. You nailed this point when you said, “I feel that the world has a judgmental eye on those who make choices that are not in the social norms of what they believe.” It is challenging yet important not to judge others even when they act contrary to one’s own beliefs. This is something I am learning here on the Bump forum! Thanks again for taking part in the conversation.
This series is very well done. I had tears in my eyes when I saw this episode. What storytelling!
As not yet a father, having lived through many miscarriages, hoping that God in his mercy would bless us with a child and finally having a child, it pains me to hear about abortion. If I come across as unloving it is because I do not know how to tell you that I love you and want to help you. I hate the abortion but I love you.
Asking somebody to trust is easy when you are not on the hot seat. Many things in life that can’t change we find ourselves accepting. Is this trust or is it that we finally realize that the only thing left to do is to trust?
Rick,
Your post above has inspired me to write, at least some of, my story because it caused me to think about the role that trust plays in all of life’s hard decisions.
I did not post my story here, because it was rather long so I went looking for the “Tell Us Your Story” board that used to be on this site, so I could post it there. I’m disappointed that the producers have decided to just delete that entire story board, because it was there that I found the most beautifully articulated and heart wrenching, truly vulnerable testimonies of real-life struggles. I don’t know why they have decided to remove that board. It not only eliminated the chance for all the visitors to Bump+ to hear these above mentioned, particularly moving storys, but, by their removal, has left some of us waiting to share our stories to question whether or not to risk the chance that ours will also be removed if we do.
I probably should be saying all this to the producers and not to you, but since yours was the post to inspire me and to which I was responding in the body of my story, I wanted to include you.
I will include part of that response here, to hopefully spark more in depth conversation on the subject of trust, but as for the rest of my story, until I feel safe, I’ll keep it to myself.
On the issue of trust…..
Of course, nobody has a crystal ball, so no one can say for certain how any one situation will turn out, however, we humans continue to make life changing decisions based upon suppositions.
I have been intriqued by this Bump+ experiment because I see it as a way for real dialog to open our eyes to more than our own limited perspective. You made a point about trust that resonated with me and I, for the first time wanted to share my story. I think, so often, we make major life decisions based on our own limited understanding and never allow trust or even hope, really, to be a part of that decision. And as you so adeptly pointed out, asking someone to trust is easy when you are not on the hot seat. I, however, believe it is a worthwhile endeavor to encourage everyone in that direction. Still, I would add that asking them to trust before they have been given the grace in which to walk it out, is impossible really, and is like asking someone to pick up a 50lb. bag when they have no arms. The more important point to realize here, is that there is no place that God’s will can take us that His unending grace can’t keep us. So the first question that has to be asked is, what is God’s will in this particular situation?
You and I seem to have stumbled upon the lesson of trust, not necessarily choosing it, but rather accepting it along the way. But blessed are the women (and men) who find themselves in the situation where they choose to trust, by choosing life, even when all rational seems to be pointing them in the other direction. For them, hind-sight truly is 20/20.
Still, the toughest thing in life is trying to learn to trust, especially when life has let you down in that department, possibly many times before, but like you said, we might practice coming to realize that the only thing left to do, is to trust.
Thank you for that perspective.
IMPORTANT PRODUCER NOTE
Carpe Diem -
I look forward to reading the rest of your story in this post – but I stopped after the first paragraph to immediately assure you that we have not (intentionally) removed the Tell Us Your Story board. We believe it is the heart and soul of this forum, and of the experiment itself. A quick check of our administrator pages shows that the stories are still here, so we aren’t sure why they aren’t visible to you. We are already looking into the problem and will keep you and the other viewers updated as soon as possible. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Sincerely -
Lauri Deason
Producer
Carpe Diem -
I’ve just posted a note to the whole thread announcing that the Share Your Story boards are once again available on the homepage. I wanted to let you know personally, and thank you for bringing it to our attention. I hope you will still share your story with us.
Sincerely,
Lauri Deason
Producer
Deidre Mundy, I have never thought of the angle that it could be harder for her to deal with his forgiveness than his anger. Awesome insight and perspective…thanks!
I think it’s sad how MEN don’t get a voice unless it’s pushing for an abortion. I mean obviously Hailey’s bf wants an abortion/be famous in here but why is this the “reality” of the issue being portrayed in BUMP+?
I hate that the abortion discussion never includes men. I just went through a miscarriage and my husband was brought to tears when he came to terms over the death of our baby. Men are connected to their children in ways that many women probably fail to notice or even care.
Yes, there is the stigma of -men don’t care about consequences/results of using women- but why feed into that thinking? Shouldn’t men get a chance to defend their babies too? It just makes you think about it. I’m not a man so i can’t talk for them but I do see that the way the abortion discussion is going is pretty “one-sided” and I don’t mean more pro-choice or life. I mean Mainly women are discussing this.
Men have their right to discuss on these walls as well… the fact that it’s mainly women who have been discussing the subject is probably because women get in the situation first, they learn it first, they carry the baby… etc… so that’s why women always feel more concerned when we talk about pregnancy, I think.
However, that doesn’t mean at all that men don’t have a voice about this show! I’ve actually been enjoying reading ALL of the men’s comments, whether they were pro-choice or pro-life…
I think it is interesting that everyone seems to be assuming that the husband will forgive her and want to raise the child with her. That would be a lot to expect of someone. It is one thing to find out your spouse has been unfaithful, it is another thing to accept another person’s child as your own. She may lose her husband/her life if she does not terminate. These are the real situations that people face. I understand how she could choose abortion for herself and that be the best decision. But again I think that Katie needs to make that choice and I support her right to do so. She is in a life-changing situation and it really sucks.
I don’t think anyone is *assuming* that – I think maybe we are just hopeful, because the alternative is just unthinkable and far too sad.
I understand being hopeful for her and her husband, but the Katie is dealing with the reality of the situation and it is a bad situation. It seems unlikely to me that her husband will be able to overcome the fact of raising another man’s child, especially if it turns out that he cannot father another child with her. It could lead to a lot of resentment for Katie and the child. It is a tough situation for her and I hope she makes the right choice for her.
Katie’s choice will be life changing no matter what choice she makes. If she chooses to abort she may come to find a resentment towards her husband knowing they have had so much trouble conceiving. Maybe she made a huge mistake, but maybe knowing the circumstances the husband will choose to help her raise the child. Then what if she chooses to abort and he leaves her anyways, how would she feel then? Then not only did she choose to abort and lost her child but lost her husband as well. What’s left? When I was in this situation I choose abortion, I still think about my baby almost daily after 2 years. Where is the father of her baby….does he even know she’s pregnant? My husband and I worked things out, but he was willing for me to have that child as long as I was willing to put it up for adoption, I wish this is the path I would have chosen!
Wow, I have had a miscarriage and you have no choice but to be able to make that choice I honestly know I couldn’t do it no matter what the situation was. I am really intersted in what Katie’s and Emily’s Choice… I really think they are really in the backseat when it comes to there decision.
It also sounds like he’s religious (She said he talked about God’s time.). So he may see himself as a St. joseph figure, given the chance.
On the other hand, I could see Katie being afraid that he WOULD do the noble and heroic thing. After all, sometimes accepting that you’ve been forgiven is actually HARDER than dealing with another person’s anger– because it takes a TON of humility to be on the receiving end of that kind of magnaminity…..
This episode gets to the heart of one of the common misconceptions about abortion–that it is a quick fix for a problem pregnancy. While the abortion procedure itself can be quick, and it may plaster over a pre-existing relationship problem (i.e., Katie’s situation), abortion can cause serious psychological problems far into the future.
I found it interesting that Katie is only concerned about physical pain from the abortion procedure. In the interest of making a fully informed decision on this pregnancy, I think Katie should be told about the very real possibility of long-term emotional, psychological, and spiritual pain that she may suffer for years after the physical pain is but a distant memory.
I agree Florentius, all of these things are very real after an abortion, and it can be an emotional roller coaster.
Best episode yet.
Hear hear!
Wow. This is getting interesting. I think that she should never be allowed to make a decision in such an emotional state – that is purely irresponsible. The first thing this doctor should do is sit her down with a social worker to talk about this first. Not rush her off to get an abortion because her husband is coming home. He should know that the aftermath is very often far more difficult than the decision.
[COMMENT HAS BEEN EDITED]
I fully agree, Lizaane. She is obviously quite upset, and has been from the start. Now, I believe she is really scared, because she does not know how her husband will react. That is precisely why she needs to slow down and not make such a harsh and hasty decision. If she hides the affair from her husband, for as long as she can – I am sure it will eventually come to light – it will be something that will stand in the way of their marriage relationship. ‘Getting rid of the evidence’ will not ‘make it go away.’ It will just ’sweep it under the rug’ and they will trip over it every time they turn around. It will eat away at any intimacy that they share. It will magnify any distance that might already be there. When a man comes back from being deployed, there is always an adjustment period when he comes home. The adjustment will be all the more difficult with a ’secret’ lurking in the background. As difficult as it may be, she needs to level with John and let him help her to make the best decision for their marriage.
And – you just never know — while he may be horribly hurt by her infidelity, he may feel that they can’t just murder the baby out of the way of their lives. He wants children – he may be willing to raise this child as his own (people have been know to do incredibly selfless things). Surely he has seen enough death, and may not want to be party to more, especially within his own wife.
Sorry that posted in the wrong place, that was in response to Kate.
Dear “Let’s See How Long…”
I am unsure as to whether you expect or seek an answer to your implied question. For the record, the answer (this time) is “19 minutes”. As we have clearly posted on our home page and stated many times on this website, we do reserve and will exercise the right to edit or delete comments that do not offer a positive, compassionate contribution to the discussion. Producers visit the site frequently and remove such posts as soon as we encounter them.
Many people in this forum share your beliefs. Others are struggling to truly understand them; but we would hope everyone respects you and that you would offer the same respect in return. As a sign of that respect on our part, we have left posts from you that contain actual conversation and questions. Our associate producer, Emily, has even answered one of them. To be honest, your screen name suggests an argumentative attitude, and your posts are becoming increasingly inappropriate to this forum.
If you are truly seeking honest and compassionate discussion on this difficult topic, we welcome you. But we make no apology for protecting others in this community from an attack in what should be a safe place.
Sincerely,
Lauri Deason
Producer